Hyundai limp mode

Jul 06, 2024
I have a 1.7L diesel Hyundi i40, 2012 model, came out of warranty last month then this happened! went int limp mode and wouldn't do more than 3,000rpm. Took it to daler, they diagnosed a dirty injector (number 3). Cleaned it and swapped it with number 4. Problem recurred a few days later..

Limp mode is a system in a vehicle that protects it from causing damage to vital components such as the catalytic converter and engine. When the vehicle enters limp mode, it will restrict acceleration to about 30 mph, stop the engine revs from rising above 3000rpm, and display the check engine light. The car will run without one of the engine ...Likes Received: 1. Turtle said: I had the software update done to my 2018 Sonata 2.4 l a month ago. While on vacation my Sonata decided to go into limp mode. It was the knocksenor wiring harness that was the culprit. The factory harness is too taunt and routed too close to body,frame causing a odd frequency to snap the ECM into safe ( limp ) mode.Remove the EGR cooler and clean with a suitable cleaning agent depending on the contamination level. If it is no longer possible to clean the EGR cooler, it must be replaced. Please observe the vehicle manufacturer's repair and maintenance instructions in this regard. This defect may also occur in other models from this manufacturer with the ...#1 · Mar 13, 2019. Good morning all, Curious to see if anyone has had the same issue i just went through. I was driving and all was fine, then all of a sudden it's as if my 2017 Santa …Ive had limp mode happen to me what feels like a thousand times. Sold my pierce catless and put stock converter back on and hasn't happened since. ... This is the Veloster Turbo forum where you can learn all the tips and mods to make your Hyundai Veloster Turbo faster and talk about the new Veloster N! Show Less . Full Forum Listing ...Having thin hair can be a challenge when it comes to finding the right shampoo. It’s important to find a shampoo that won’t weigh down your hair and leave it looking flat and limp....Driving on a highway, car abruptly went into limp mode, had to cruise to a stop, and would not accelerate. Numerous dash lights illuminated. Shut car off and restarted… car was back to normal. ... Get it towed to Hyundai dealership, who advises the following is needed: 1) Throttle body replacement ($1300) ...Let’s start our content with the definition of your Hyundai Elantra that goes to limp mode . You probably won’t have any info about the fact that this mode has been switched on and you will just experience the results. Generally the clues of a safety mode on your Hyundai Elantra will be that you will notice an identifiable loss of power ...Jul 13, 2015 · 2718 posts · Joined 2006. #3 · Jul 15, 2015. In my experience, a bad crank position sensor is a fairly common reason for a limp mode. They are known for going bad, insulation flaking of the wires. NGM / Alpine Stage 2,NGM Budget short block, NGM reflash, Injen CAI, Hot Shots, Mussa single, Fidanza, South Bend OFE,Ralco STS, Kart Boy shifter ... The p2600 code in a hyundai sonata is related to the electronic control module (ecm) of the vehicle. It indicates a problem with the fuel pump control circuit. This code indicates that the ecm has detected an abnormal voltage reading in the fuel pump control circuit. This can be caused by a damaged fuel pump or a short circuit in the wiring.And random turn off. Recently my Hyundai has started randomly turning off when either coming to a complete stop or stopped at a stop sign or traffic light. The issue is slowly increasing in frequency. Also I have noticed the car go into limp mode a couple of times over the last 2 weeks where I cannot accelerate more than 40km's (24miles).Dec 26, 2013 · Here's a solution: Reinstall his exhaust. It's probably not the one he wants to hear, but I can't imagine that running without an exhaust is a good thing, not to mention the amount of damage that exhaust gasses coming off of the turbo is doing to everything under his hood. <smh>. 2013 Becketts Black 2.0 T R Spec. Hyundai is a well-known car manufacturer that continues to evolve its vehicle styles to meet the wants and needs of its customers while still staying affordable. This article will ...by meganmarie100594. Limp mode no engine code. HELP! : (. I have a 2012 Hyundai Elantra limited with 67k miles and I’m the third owner. Since about September I’ve had this issue were the car will sometimes not turn on. There’s no engine code so it’s been difficult trying to pin point the issue. My dads a mechanic and we’ve changed a ...I have a 2012 Hyundai ix35 1.7 diesel, which is under a finance agreement. The vehicle frequently goes into limp mode, exclusively under acceleration such as overtaking or joining the motorway. The dash shows no lights and no fault codes are stored according to main dealer. By pulling over, turning the car off and on, I can immediately …Indian Twitter users to trend #BoycottHyundai. Update: The South Korean government has reacted to the controversy saying it “regretted the offence caused to the people of India” ov...Location. The Woods of NY. Sep 6, 2023. #1. Well.. Very concerned now.. The 13 Sonata 2.4L GDI threw a check engine light out of the blue, (after 5 plus hours detailing it!) Miles are about 85K. Oil consumption did not spike, no abnormal sounds, but the p1326 code is permanent even after erasing the code it will come back within 15 seconds ...Dec 21, 2023 ... ... 240K views · 2:15 · Go to channel · limp mode on a Hyundai elantra. rustbucketvalleygarage•5.3K views · 18:06 · Go to channe...A transmission stuck in gear, also known as limp mode, is a condition where the transmission cannot shift out of a particular gear, usually a low gear. It is typically caused by an issue with the transmission control module (TCM) or the transmission itself. The TCM is a computer that controls the transmission and receives input from various ...Limp mode. Discussion in 'Hyundai Sonata' started by Turtle, Jul 4, 2019 . Turtle. Joined: May 10, 2019. Messages: 6. Likes Received: 0. I had the software update …Maybe it’s because your Hyundai Santa Fe is going to limp mode . In reality, the security mode can be activated on a motor vehicle for a number of reasons and the activation of this mode will set the engine’s performance, sometimes producing a momentary or irrevocable loss of power from your Hyundai Santa Fe until you solve the problem. Our ...Sep 23, 2018 · I was in limp home mode and I couldn't accelerate past 1800RPM. I took it to the dealership today and they said they read two codes (P016B00 and P132600). They had no clue what the P016B00 code was and said they have to reach out to Hyundai. I had the new 953 campaign performed as well just 3 weeks ago. I know @sbr711 mentioned P132600 in the ... And random turn off. Recently my Hyundai has started randomly turning off when either coming to a complete stop or stopped at a stop sign or traffic light. The issue is slowly increasing in frequency. Also I have noticed the car go into limp mode a couple of times over the last 2 weeks where I cannot accelerate more than 40km's (24miles).xaran. 2602 posts · Joined 2017. #10 · Mar 7, 2022. If the CEL is on and it is P1326 code get it to the dealer and providing you have had the TSB for the KSDS update (953) you will have lifetime engine warranty coverage for failure due to knock, bearing failure. The P1326 code is a knock sensor .So naturally I went to dealer and they installed it. A Day later my engine light starts flashing and the car goes into limp mode. I take it to the dealer and they say it is a serious problem with the engine. Hyundai had warranty up to 200,000 but my car had 206000. 6000 kilometers over, so Warranty denided by Hyundai Canada.Limp mode is usually when one or more of the high priority sensors is way out of normal range. Since you have a coupe of codes, it is best to start with one and fix that first. O2 sensor reminds me of the wires under the car. Sometimes they get frayed or short out. This can cause limp mode or loss of power.May 2, 2021 ... I have this issue with my 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe XL V6 (204000 KMs) where if I idle for about 10-20 minutes the car's RPM will rise for a very ...Hyundai getz 1.5 crdi limp mode. Hello I bought a Hyundai gets it took very long to start and drove in limp mode we did a compression test and it had basically no compression on 1 and 2 which explains why it took so long to start so the motor was redone the car starts immediately now like it should but still runs in limp mode could it be that ...On the way I noticed it was in limp mode. I've read before that when in limp mode apparently the car won't exceed XXXX amount of rpms, (I believe it was quoted at 2000). ... hyundai strut bar hyundai …2015 VT Limp Mode. Okay so i have seen quite a bit of issues with limp mode in these cars. About a month ago I started having misfires on startup for about 5 seconds and the car smoothed out and ran perfectly fine. About 6 days ago the car started having issues starting up on a cold start, then 3 days ago on cold start I put it in gear and the ...The 2016 Hyundai Veloster has 2 problems reported for goes into limp mode. Average failure mileage is 31,600 miles. ... Hyundai Santa Fe Backup Camera Recall Affects 2024 Model Year recalls5 July 2018. Graham Smith. Intermittent problems like yours are always hard to diagnose and fix because they rarely occur when the mechanic is present to observe them. It seems as though yours has gone into limp home mode after the computer detected a fault. The only course of action is persistence until the source of the problem shows up in a ...Hyundai is a well-known car manufacturer that continues to evolve its vehicle styles to meet the wants and needs of its customers while still staying affordable. This article will ...A few months ago it started shaking then dying on me at traffic lights. Few days ago, I suddenly lost power. Looks like the car activated the limp mode. I couldn’t squeeze more than 30 mph (2000-3000 rpm). Check engine light didn’t come up. Called Hyundai dealer and they scheduled the diagnostics in a few weeks from now. I don’t …Why is my hyundai i10 going into limp mode? Now we’re going to outline the reasons why your hyundai i10 is on limp mode. To begin with you can easily verify if this …Limp mode is a car security feature that activates when a fault is detected, reducing speed and switching off non-essential functions. It is triggered by abnormal signals from car components, such as faulty sensors, transmission issues, or low fluid levels. The best way to fix limp mode is to consult a mechanic who can inspect and resolve the ...Try not driving in heavy rain and don't go through car washes, it can affect/damage knock sensor which can also cause limp mode. For now on, it's sad but …#1 · Aug 1, 2022. Hi, I have the 2020 Hyundai Tucson 1.6 diesel hybrid that goes into limp mode during long journeys. the car will stop accelerating and stay in 5th gear and loose …mmusser. My 2017 Santa Fe Sport 2.0 also went into limp mode right after an oil change. 2 days later it started smoking white when pressing on the gas pedal. I had it towed to a dealership and they said that the Turbo went out and would need to be replaced. Just something to consider because you said yours went into limp mode.Good evening, Having a problem with our Hyundai ix35 2011 plate. Back in February when we had that cold snap, it began to lose power when accelerating, usually around 3000rpms. The engine didn't cut off, but would just lose power and the car would slow down. After 10 seconds or so, it would kick back in and drive as normal.Apr 13, 2023 · At that time, Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P1326, specific to the KSDS, will be recorded in the ECU. The vehicle can continue to be operated for a limited time in Limp Home Mode, but it will accelerate slowly and have a reduced maximum speed. Also, engine RPMs will be limited to approximately 1800-2000 RPM. Yes, partially; the Hyundai Motor Company owns about a third of Kia Motors. Both Kia and Hyundai are large automobile makers originally based in South Korea. Hyundai is the largest...Apr 6, 2024 · Hello 2016 accent. 151000 miles uses about 1/2quart oil every 1200 miles. po420 code came up I replaced cat/manifold and upper and lower 02 sensors. Took it for a test drive ran good at first then acts like its in limp mode. / 3/4 miles per hour then fun normal until i let off the gas pedal then limp mode again. Made it home. Likes Received: 1. Turtle said: I had the software update done to my 2018 Sonata 2.4 l a month ago. While on vacation my Sonata decided to go into limp mode. It was the knocksenor wiring harness that was the culprit. The factory harness is too taunt and routed too close to body,frame causing a odd frequency to snap the ECM into safe ( limp ) mode.2011 Hyundai Sonata GLS 2.4 LIMP MODE (SOLVED) Jump to Latest Follow. 5K views 9 replies 4 participants last post by sh189427 Jul 10, 2021. sh189427 …Jul 20, 2023 · mmusser. My 2017 Santa Fe Sport 2.0 also went into limp mode right after an oil change. 2 days later it started smoking white when pressing on the gas pedal. I had it towed to a dealership and they said that the Turbo went out and would need to be replaced. Just something to consider because you said yours went into limp mode. Jul 6, 2014 · Jmoon1221 Discussion starter. 2 posts · Joined 2014. #1 · Jul 6, 2014. My wife has a 2006 santa fe 3.5l limited over the winter it started acting up went into limp mode and would only go 20mph so I went and picked up a TPsensor well it went out of limp mode so i never changed the sensor well last month it started doing it again so i changed ... Dean Sr. "Limp Home" is a seeting your dealer does with your 4 digit code and the tech's hand held computer. It allows you to start the car and "limp" somewhere at a low speed in the event of a mechanical problem. That proceduce, along with auto locks, easy exit etc. should have been explained by the dealer.I have a 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2crdi AWD auto. I replaced the oil pump assembly on the transmission as well as the torque converter due to a seized bush on the converter. Since then the car starts in limp mode. I had a diagnostic done and got a code P0765. I did some tests indicated by the workshop manual I have, and found a …So in my 04 I am getting the following codes: P1110 - Electronic Throttle System Fault. P0224 - ETS - TPS 1 Circuit Linearity. P1171 - Electronic Throttle System open. taken with a snap-on ethos scanner, not some auto zone garbage. It is running HORRIBLY, and when I give it a quick spurt of gas, the engine revs wildly at about 2500-3000 rpm and ...1 post · Joined 2018. #1 · May 15, 2018 (Edited) Hi all I'm new to this ive got i40 1.7crdi I've changed the engine and turbo but it's like its in limp mode no warning lights at all and sound ok. on the drive it will not rev more than 3000rpm which i assume is limp mode. any help would be great also there are no fault codes stored at all. i ...I have a 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2crdi AWD auto. I replaced the oil pump assembly on the transmission as well as the torque converter due to a seized bush on the converter. Since then the car starts in limp mode. I had a diagnostic done and got a code P0765. I did some tests indicated by the workshop manual I have, and found a resistance on the ...by meganmarie100594. Limp mode no engine code. HELP! : (. I have a 2012 Hyundai Elantra limited with 67k miles and I’m the third owner. Since about September I’ve had this issue were the car will sometimes not turn on. There’s no engine code so it’s been difficult trying to pin point the issue. My dads a mechanic and we’ve changed a ...Check the water level in your radiator. I had neglected mine for a while and the level had dropped enough that I couldn't see any water through the the top of the rad. Low cost simple check but you might be surprised. Thanks for reply. Water lewel, oil lewel, automatic gearoil, servo oil is checked and is ok.Jul 3, 2021 · 489 posts · Joined 2019. #4 · Jul 3, 2021. If you're CEL is blinking along with being in limp mode, have it towed to a dealer for a new engine. If your CEL is blinking, you shouldn't be driving the car. Turbonut. Like. D. DaeDaeRockxz Discussion starter. 19 posts · Joined 2018. The P0700 code in your Hyundai Santa Fe is a generic OBD-II code that indicates a malfunction within the transmission control system. This code is not specific to any particular issue but rather points to a general fault in the system. Additionally, the P0700 code usually appears in conjunction with other transmission-related codes or shift ...Are you looking to get the most out of your Hyundai Venue? If so, then you’re in luck. With a free repair manual, you can learn how to take care of your vehicle and make sure it ru...Mar 22, 2024 · Limp mode problem. As I previously posted my 2023 without warning went into limp mode. It was towed to the dealer who had it for a month and then said that while they did not doubt that it happened, they were unable to replicate the problem. This was in September. I had an attorney pursue a lemon law challenge. Nov 13, 2023 · A transmission stuck in gear, also known as limp mode, is a condition where the transmission cannot shift out of a particular gear, usually a low gear. It is typically caused by an issue with the transmission control module (TCM) or the transmission itself. The TCM is a computer that controls the transmission and receives input from various ... The p2600 code in a hyundai sonata is related to the electronic control module (ecm) of the vehicle. It indicates a problem with the fuel pump control circuit. This code indicates that the ecm has detected an abnormal voltage reading in the fuel pump control circuit. This can be caused by a damaged fuel pump or a short circuit in the wiring.And that's obviously happening if you cycle power and limp clears. A number of things can trigger limp. Any gear slip or defective speed sensors is one example. If it's just the transmission or ECU modules a basic code reader should show the code. Can get these pretty cheap or even a bluetooth reader and phone app.4 components that can cause an Hyundai Terracan to enter Limp Mode: Turbocharger: If the turbocharger is not functioning correctly, the engine’s computer will transmit the information and activate the safety mode. EGR valve: A clogged EGR valve due to exhaust gases containing residues can be one of the causes of Limp Mode activation.Photos: Hyundai. Owner Reviews Write a Review Dmar Sutton on July 18, 2022 Poor performance and poop quality The “check engine” light on my 2016 Tucson was on and the vehicle was running rough. ... Recently my vehicle went into limp mode and was told by Hyundai that my transmission failed and needed to be replaced. I took it to a ...Jan 22, 2022 ... This 2014 Tucson came in with a complaint of the MIL Flashing and reduced engine power. Scanning revealed P1326 Knock Sensor activity.May 4, 2013 · Jay@SFR. It's actually called Power management mode in 3.8 maps which is most likely happening due to throttle actuation most of cases. Turbo'd guys most likely have these limp mode issues due to the amount of air flow coming into the throttle body which we were able to bypass in the tunes for FI maps. June 08, 2022 by John Tallodi. If you experience a loss of power and see some warning lights on your dashboard, then your car may well have entered into limp mode. It’s called this because the car will limit power to protect it from possible damage, while still allowing it to hobble on to your garage or destination.Sometimes engine check light comes on. Checking with cheap OBD2 returns the code P0101 (or P0101 pending). Cleaning MAF made no difference. As mileage is approaching 70K I decided to bite the bullet and buy a new genuine MAF, knowing that this was a gamble but at least giving me the peace of mind that the MAF was now future …20880 posts · Joined 2009. #9 · Oct 23, 2015. If you are lugging the engine this will cause the limp mode and for good reason. Watch out for using the cruise control to resume speed if you are in the wrong gear. If I would hit resume and be in 6th and around 40 mph it would go into limp. 2010 Red 2.0L track.Sep 28, 2011 · Limp Home Mode activated. I was driving home from work 3 days ago and my Veloster with less than 300 miles on it suddenly decided to go into "Limp Home Mode". I was stopped at a light and when I took off, it had almost no power and would not rev past 3k RPM. I drove it to the dealer and dropped it off for service to look at in the morning but ... Some cars though do put the engine management system into LOS (Limited Operation Strategy / limp mode) when the filter loading exceeds a specific level. I've never had any dealings with DPF faults on Hyundai so I don't know if that's the case on your car. The filter should have been regenerating (self cleaning) on a motorway journey though, so ...Hi sort of new here I got an automatic 03 Hyundai sonata 2.7 v6. I think think it's stuck in limp mode/ stuck in 3rd gear. It drives so perfect when I first take off, good through 1st and 2nd. Then gets to 3rd still perfect. And then I come to a stop and it does not down shift on its own so I push the shifter to the side so I can manually do it ...- took into Hyundai, said limp mode code and P0106 MAP Sensor.. said everything looked ok except air filter very dirty, replaced - after getting home 3 hours later check engine light came back on - took in this morning (check engine light not on) but they ran scan and another P0106 code, they are ordering a new MAP sensor ...- took into Hyundai, said limp mode code and P0106 MAP Sensor.. said everything looked ok except air filter very dirty, replaced - after getting home 3 hours later check engine light came back on - took in this morning (check engine light not on) but they ran scan and another P0106 code, they are ordering a new MAP sensor ...Dec 5, 2021 ... Few days ago, I suddenly lost power. Looks like the car activated the limp mode. I couldn't squeeze more than 30 mph (2000-3000 rpm). Check ...Dec 5, 2021 · A few months ago it started shaking then dying on me at traffic lights. Few days ago, I suddenly lost power. Looks like the car activated the limp mode. I couldn’t squeeze more than 30 mph (2000-3000 rpm). Check engine light didn’t come up. Called Hyundai dealer and they scheduled the diagnostics in a few weeks from now. I don’t know what ... The P0700 code in your Hyundai Santa Fe is a generic OBD-II code that indicates a malfunction within the transmission control system. This code is not specific to any particular issue but rather points to a general fault in the system. Additionally, the P0700 code usually appears in conjunction with other transmission-related codes or shift ...Dec 19, 2006 · mahout. 'limp home' mode is the result of a detected defect in the emissions or operating electronics. When that condition is detected by the computer system the operation of the vehicle is reduced to the least harmful conditions to the vehicle and to environment. Least harmful to vehicle being most important. In today’s fast-paced world, it’s essential to have access to the right information at our fingertips. When it comes to reaching out to a company like Hyundai, having their main of...I have a 2012 Hyundai ix35 1.7 diesel, which is under a finance agreement. The vehicle frequently goes into limp mode, exclusively under acceleration such as overtaking or joining the motorway. The dash shows no lights and no fault codes are stored according to main dealer. By pulling over, turning the car off and on, I can immediately …Two companies are denying coverage for these Kia and Hyundai vehicles because they're so easily hot-wired. Car insurance companies don’t take unnecessary risks—and now, for State F...1 post · Joined 2018. #1 · May 15, 2018 (Edited) Hi all I'm new to this ive got i40 1.7crdi I've changed the engine and turbo but it's like its in limp mode no warning lights at all and sound ok. on the drive it will not rev more than 3000rpm which i assume is limp mode. any help would be great also there are no fault codes stored at all. i ...I had a BMW before this GT and when it went into limp mode it was scary but f not outright dangerous. One time it was the electrical water pump. The other times, the dash would light up like a Christmas tree. Traction malfunction, transmission malfunction, brake malfunction, engine malfunction. The problem. Needed a new battery.

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That Aug 1, 2023 · engine limp home mode. I bought my Hyundai Sonata in 2019. It was running fine until last year 2022 when the car started having oil-burning issues. In June dealership found that the head gasket had a leak in the engine. I got it fixed and did a hot engine oil flush and fuel injection system cleaned and an oil change also.

How So naturally I went to dealer and they installed it. A Day later my engine light starts flashing and the car goes into limp mode. I take it to the dealer and they say it is a serious problem with the engine. Hyundai had warranty up to 200,000 but my car had 206000. 6000 kilometers over, so Warranty denided by Hyundai Canada.To protect your engine and yourself, the Powertrain Control Module goes into a fail-safe mode when it detects a MAF sensor issue, limiting the power of acceleration. If you scan your vehicle and it returns trouble codes P2106 and P0101, your MAF sensor is causing the PCM to go into limp mode.

When Hyundai. Hyundai confirms that six of its late-model vehicles are subject to a recall and sales stop, due to problems with the 8-speed dual-clutch transmission. All N-model cars plus the Santa ...Harsh environmental conditions can affect the sensors, affecting their operation and potentially leading to what sensors can cause limp mode. High temperatures, excessive moisture, and prolonged exposure to extreme cold can all contribute to sensor malfunction. For instance, extreme heat can cause sensor …Limp mode is a car security feature that activates when a fault is detected, reducing speed and switching off non-essential functions. It is triggered by abnormal signals from car components, such as faulty sensors, transmission issues, or low fluid levels. The best way to fix limp mode is to consult a mechanic who can inspect and resolve the ...…

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john deere 6x4 gator wiring diagram Aug 28, 2022 ... In the last couple of weeks my car has gone into limp mode a couple of times and just displays a check engine light, when driving it hard.It is only there for emissions, but adds complexity and isn’t essential to a vehicle’s fundamental operation, yet the vehicle can be immobilised or put into limp mode because of it. car registration hamilton county tnk105 court docket Limp mode is when you notice that car doesnt boost "pull" as hard as it did. The cars on board computer "ecu" got too hot and or notice you've been pushing too damn hard on the car that the ecu protects you from blowing sh*t up for a good 15mins so that the ecu and turbo cools down. Wow, massive fail! All times are GMT -6. silver eagle groupjeep dtc p0480gatorade rain berry discontinued Knock sensor limp mode. Hi y’all , my 2017 Hyundai Sonata has been going into limp mode a few times these last months. It’s been two the dealership twice under warranty. First they said it’s a software update recall so they updated the software then they said well it’s the knocks sensor harness that sending your car in to limp mode . chevrolet caprice 1980 for sale Limp mode is a low-power safe mode that is meant to prevent severe damage to your car's engine and transmission. You can bypass limp mode by restarting your car, checking the fluid levels, disconnecting the battery, or scanning it with an OBD scanner. When limp mode is active, you should avoid driving unless absolutely necessary.Limp mode is usually when one or more of the high priority sensors is way out of normal range. Since you have a coupe of codes, it is best to start with one and fix that first. O2 sensor reminds me of the wires under the car. Sometimes they get frayed or short out. This can cause limp mode or loss of power. atrium doby's bridgestate near wash. crosswordferris is 3200z price I was in limp home mode and I couldn't accelerate past 1800RPM. I took it to the dealership today and they said they read two codes (P016B00 and P132600). They had no clue what the P016B00 code was and said they have to reach out to Hyundai. I had the new 953 campaign performed as well just 3 weeks ago. I know @sbr711 mentioned …